Joel,

I see what you are saying, but the idea about acknowledging differences is not just on the side of liberals. Conservatives have pushed amendments saying the church isn't of one mind on abortion, the death penalty, war, gun control and a host of positions. In fact, the conservatives were able to get the Book of Discipline altered four years ago to recognize differing positions in the church on the topic of war.

I favored recognizing that differences exist on the topic of homosexuality, but I'm not going to leave the church because I didn't get my way. Scores of conservatives, though, have vowed to leave the church if they don't continue to get their way.

I grew up among conservative United Methodists, so I'm happy to co-exist.

The difficult challenge for the church is that the division on homosexuality is significantly geographical.

One problem with that position, Joel, is that some of those issues you mention are not addressed by the Bible or church tradition. Look at gun control for instance. The District Superintendent for my district happens to be the founder of CeaseFire NJ, a group I disagree with. However, Jack Johnson and I are friendly when we meet each other at church functions(though I've never told him I'm a member of a gun club or that I target shoot). I don't doubt his faith, and I hope he wouldn't doubt my faith just because I have a different political view.

Here's another side to the coin. Conservative United Methodists having won the votes on homosexuality issues now say that isn't enough, that they now want to split the denomination up so that they can get rid of the liberals completely and have their own denomination in which liberal dissent will be impossible. So, is it just a matter of ungracious losers or also of ungracious winners?

Can you provide the source of that? I'm a supporter of the Confessing Movement and the IRD, and haven't heard such rhetoric from those groups. In fact, they're urging reform from within, and they accomodate political differences. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that that isn't the viewpoint of all conservatives.

The source of that is the publisher of Good News Magazine, William Heidinger and Dr. William Hinson, one of the founders of the Confessing Movement. The story is posted at www.gc2004.org and www.goodnewsmag.org.

And Mark Tooley says a split is what they (conservatives) have been working toward all along.

I saw the Hinson article last night for the first time, searching for it after responding to your comment. While it does literally confirm your statement that conservatives (or at least one conservative individual) are seeking a separation, I did notice in his opening sentence that he is speaking for himself, and that his views are not an official stance of the Confessing Movement.

I have never heard Mark Tooley say that he advocates a split of the United Methodist Church, not could I find one using a quick search for such statements using your sentence as input.

The Confessing Movement has posted Dr, Hinson's statement on its web site. No, the Confessing Movement hasn't officially endorsed his view, but he is president of their Board and are allowing him to use their forum to spread his view. Anyway, unofficial trial balloons are the way things are usually done. IRD has posted the statement as has Good News. It seems to me they are setting the stage for 2008.

Going back, I couldn't find Tooley being quoted exactly as I said, so I either paraphrased or have an imperfect memory. The New York Times article of May 7 says, "Mr. Tooley said that conservatives had been hoping to engineer a divorce from liberals for years." If I paraphrased, that probably would be my source.

I don't claim to be "objective" on this matter, although I try to fairly portray what is going on. I am adamantly opposed to a split because my views on the atonement are conservative or traditional and wouldn't fit well with the views of many if not most liberals. On the other hand, I have a liberal view on some issues, such as homosexuality and certain aspects of both domestic and foreign policy.

My high regard for Dr. Hinson remains intact.

ok, thanks.

I am also opposed to a split. My wife and I (and we have different political views too) both feel at-home in our Methodist church in Hightstown, and would be hurt very much by a split, especially given our experience of changing churches (Unitarian Universalist to United Methodist) back in 2001, which was a difficult decision at the time.